First Linnie Breeding - 4 chicks !

[Chris103]

Hi everyone! Been lurking around for a while and
Just wanted to share some photos of my Linnie’s and their first clutch of babies ! I just got the male in January and we already have 4 chicks! I definitely was not expecting them so soon , but I am in no way complaining. Both parents are just over a year old and quite tame, which has made them incredibly calm parents. They’re not at all bothered by my nest inspections , and will feed the chicks while I have the lid popped up to check on them. I don’t check excessively, but I’m keeping an eye out since they’re first time parents. Female is a SF D turquoise (cobalt) , she’s possibly a SF violet factor as well, but I don’t know violet well enough in Linnie’s to be sure of that. If anyone has experience with violets , please chime in with your opinion on her! Male is a green SF greywing split to turquoise and possibly split ino. I know violet factor and greywing isn’t the best pairing for violet offspring, but we all know how hard Linnie’s can be to track down and he checks all the other boxes for an appropriate pairing. Lots of color possibilities for the chicks, especially if the male is split ino, so it’ll be very exciting to see what pops up when they start to feather out . So far I’m not seeing red ino eyes in any of the chicks, but need bigger sample size to determine if he is for sure split ino or not.

Parents are both first time breeders, but I’m very relieved to see they’re being amazing parents so far . The chicks are stuffed full any time I check in on them, and the female is still brooding them most of the day. I’ve raised many bird species over the years but this is my first time keeping and breeding Linnie’s. They are such awesome little birds , I wish I had found them sooner ! I’m hooked now .

I have a few questions If anyone with experience has any insights ….

What is the best age to close band babies ? I’ve heard they need to be banded younger than most species their size, is that accurate?

Second concern.
The oldest chick is 5 days ahead of the youngest that just hatched last night. Do I need to keep an eye on the youngest chick to make sure the siblings aren’t getting all the food? The parents seem to be keeping them all full of food so far, but not sure if that’ll change as they grow and the youngest could get outcompeted. I’m planning to pull chicks for hand feeding at around 16-18 days old, but can always pull the older ones first and leave the younger one with the parents to catch up a bit. I just don’t want to lose any of them!

Lastly , do you guys that breed Linnie’s typically let them have another clutch right after the first , or should I pull the box when I pull babies and give them a short rest? I will definitely pull the box and change light cycle, diet etc after their second clutch of the year to discourage anymore breeding attempts. The parents are in great condition currently, but I’ll reassess them for a round two when I pull the chicks and go from there.

Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated!

Here’s some pictures of the pair and their chicks! They had 3 nest boxes to choose from , and of course chose the one I didn’t really want them to use . Lesson learned, Next time I’m only giving them the one good box. The box They’re using will work, but a bit smaller than I’d like and goofy entrance hole placement. I have proper boxes on hand now and will be using those exclusively in the future.

View attachment 165
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[Chris103]

Sorry for the double post on pictures and for the sideways ones! I’m still figuring out how to insert them the right way.

* Not responsible for any neck injuries

 

[Love My Linnie]

Congrats!! Love the picture of the proud mama protecting her babies!

 

[Lisa]

Congratulations they are beautiful!

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

They look fantastic! What size box did you use? Is the substrate hemp? I find it hard to tell because linnies split the shavings into finer pieces. Love that pic of momma with the baby under her. If you didn't get leg bands in time, I have a source that can get them to you quick if she clutches again. Did you decide to co-parent or handfeed them? They look healthy and great! I see I missed answering your first comment questions... will answer in the next comment below this.

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

Re: the pairing.... the term SF means single factor, so that is used to describe greywing and also violet. Greywing males can be sf or df but look very different. Have a pic of dad? We can help identify if he is a green gw with a dark factor. If a d green gw, you can get any of the 6 color mutations, plus greywings in male and female (easy to identify and dna not needed). When you describe the hen, she is a d turq (cobalt) SF violet. The sf doesn't preceed the d turq in the name, or that would signal a male gw. It is true what you say that gw mixed with violet can muddy the good color we look for in violet, and skew the markings in the barring on normal marked as well as gw, but if you select a baby to hold back for breeding, try to pick one with good markings and color. This would generally take any gw out of the running if you want to continue working with the best violet specimens you can get. Birds that are not visually violet (as you really can't identify the mutation in any mutation other than d turq in sf). It is near impossible to judge the quality of the markings in the young until they are fledged. Feathers as they come in can look better than they ultimately will or worse because the feathers won't be aligned in their final placement until in all the way. Holding off buyers until you make your choice can be tricky, but it is safe to always let the person in position one know that you get first pick. I find people are understanding about that, it is important that breeders choose the best specimen to work with for further generations. I consider personality as well in this, as it does seem to be an inherited trait. I do advise that it isn't the first trait you select for however if you wish to improve them visually in the future. I will post a picture of the ideal markings below. The photo is of a male, so the markings will be a bit more pronounced then in a hen. Don't be discouraged if you don't have a bird that is "perfect", it is improved over time by selection. Sometimes a bird will be perfect on one side, but not on the other. Consider that in your choice as well. Which baby has the best conformation, size (males will generally be a bit bigger than hens, so factor that in), markings, and color.

Question: What is the best age to close band babies ? I’ve heard they need to be banded younger than most species their size, is that accurate?

Linnies have chubby, flexible toes. This DOES make banding more difficult if doing it late. They ball up their toes and can make it hard to band, yet easy for them to fall off if you do it too early. Be sure to check daily after banding to make sure it doesn't fall off. If it is still on after 48 hours, it won't fall off, so you should feel in the clear at that point. Ideally, you want to band when the eyes are open, or just about to be. You can tell this time as the eyes become little slits, instead of a sort of eye circle without a defined upper and lower lid. If I am traveling, I have moved the band above the hock, then I wiggle it down when I return. They can be pulled down even on a full sized bird, and it doesn't injure them if you lubricate the band (olive oil or even dawn soap works well). Be sure to stabilize the leg as you do this so you don't sprain it. Eyes usually start to open and signal when to band at 7-10 days at earliest. How many chicks being fed, genetics, and quality of food/amounts can impact the growth, so keep an eye on them so you don't miss the window. If you haven't banded before, it can be a nail biting experience. Don't fear... they are like rubber when young and it is hard to injure them as long as you are passing the 3 longest toes through the band, and don't hold them too tightly. I like to band them before I feed them if handfeeding, and in the morning first thing before you feed the parents if still with the parents so you are less likely to cause airway restriction.

Second concern:
The oldest chick is 5 days ahead of the youngest that just hatched last night. Do I need to keep an eye on the youngest chick to make sure the siblings aren’t getting all the food? The parents seem to be keeping them all full of food so far, but not sure if that’ll change as they grow and the youngest could get outcompeted. I’m planning to pull chicks for hand feeding at around 16-18 days old, but can always pull the older ones first and leave the younger one with the parents to catch up a bit. I just don’t want to lose any of them!

Pulling the oldest ones if you think the younger ones aren't getting enough food is helpful, but remember that the young ones won't be as stuffed as older chicks, so don't jump the gun and assume they aren't being fed enough. If you pull 2 and leave 2, it will likely cause the parents to want to nest again more quickly and can induce plucking. If you can leave the whole group and pull them all together, even if the youngest are a hair younger than you like... I prefer that. Be sure you have a good brooder with temps you can get to the 90's with accuracy if pulling before pinning out because fluctuating temps or being too cold really negatively impacts growth.

Last question:
Do you guys that breed Linnie’s typically let them have another clutch right after the first , or should I pull the box when I pull babies and give them a short rest? I will definitely pull the box and change light cycle, diet etc after their second clutch of the year to discourage anymore breeding attempts. The parents are in great condition currently, but I’ll reassess them for a round two when I pull the chicks and go from there.

Yes, I let them clutch again if they look "in it to win it". Be sure to start the Calcivet again. Sometimes the second clutch goes off without a hitch, other times it can go south even though they did great the first clutch. I believe most commonly it is because the hormone cycle is on the down swing. Easy to spot with the cere in a budgie, not so easy with Linnies. Keep up the protein, daily spraying before incubating, and doing all you can to make them feel they are still in the "rainy, fertile season". You are doing great! Keep us posted! See below for the photo of the ideal markings below I referenced above.

 

[Chris103]

They look fantastic! What size box did you use? Is the substrate hemp? I find it hard to tell because linnies split the shavings into finer pieces. Love that pic of momma with the baby under her. If you didn't get leg bands in time, I have a source that can get them to you quick if she clutches again. Did you decide to co-parent or handfeed them? They look healthy and great! I see I missed answering your first comment questions... will answer in the next comment below this.

Thanks Eddie! Sorry for the delay getting back , and thank you for the detailed info regarding my questions, very much appreciated! Chicks are all still doing well and growing like weeds!

I’m almost embarrassed to admit the nesting box is a very cheaply made + poorly designed box I ordered on a whim off Amazon. Although I didn’t have high expectations, I quickly realized it was total garbage when I got it , buuuut Since it was their first breeding attempt, I wanted them to have multiple boxes to choose from so they couldn’t use not liking the one box as an excuse for not breeding lol. I honestly thought there’s no way they’d pick that box…So I gave them that one and 2 other boxes , a plastic vision brand box, and a larger more appropriately sized wooden box designed for budgies. All were placed about the same height in the cage. All 3 boxes were thoroughly inspected by the pair, and They spent a lot of time in all 3 boxes….. but the cheap Amazon box was the winner. That being said, I definitely don’t recommend using this box. The box measures roughly 10 inches long , and only about 5.5 inches in width and height. The entrance hole is huge, maybe 3 inches, but clearly not an issue for them. I could see how the size/shape of this box might he more similar to nesting cavity in the wild. I know These aren’t wild birds , but even captive bred birds can have instinctual preferences . Regardless, I definitely won’t be using this exact box again, but I would like to experiment a bit with box shape and dimensions in the future to see if they prefer one size or shape over the other.


The shavings are aspen, but a different grade and less dusty than typical flaked aspen shavings. It’s marketed as “snake bedding” but works for nest boxes too! I started using it in my Conure boxes several years ago for a pair that buried eggs and it’s worked very well for me. I definitely prefer it over the typical aspen flake shavings. I find that eggs and young chicks are far less likely to get buried or lost in the nest under the shavings. Since It is way more dense, they sit more on top of it and not as “in” it. Also, the parents can adjust it to their liking and it’ll hold its shape much better than typical aspen shaving. I think it’s more absorbent too, almost like a clumping cat litter if that makes sense. I’d definitely recommend trying it. Especially if you have a pair that tends to bury eggs or have chicks getting lost in the shavings.

I would have liked to try co-parenting with this pair since the parents are so calm and tame, but I started a new job and I’m not home as often as I’d like to be able to socialize with them . Fortunately, I work at a pet store, so I’m able to Bring the chicks to work for hand feeding and they’ll have plenty of socializing opportunities between myself and coworkers once they’re old enough to be out of the brooder for a little bit.

I’ll follow up in the next comment so this doesn’t get tricky to navigate.

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

If the box works, make a note and maybe offer it again to them. Don't knock what is successful! Is it the one with the metal ring around the entrance? We sell a Linnie box we have custom made, 9"x 6"x 6"with the hole on one side of the length. Offers that same thing yours may have liked about the one they chose, they don't drop straight down on the eggs.

Good news on being able to handfeed them! One thing to consider at a petshop is the other birds handfeeding at the same time (if any) - they really should not share a brooder, formula or hand feeding tools with any other birds for fear of disease. Likely you are fine, but thought it was something I should mention. If I were to hold back a baby from the clutch and it shared airspace with any other birds, I would quarantine when you get it back home and test for psittacosis, polyoma and PBFD at a minimum. Though I am admittedly, a paranoid person when it comes to that stuff.

Keep us posted with pictures as they grow!

 

[Chris103]

I checked out the box you sell on chirp central , it looks nice! Very similar to the one they’re using , just way better ! I’ll definitely have to get one and try it out with them . The main thing I hate about the one they’re using is the wood quality. It’s just slightly stronger than basal wood. Definitely won’t last. The box they’re using is the one with the metal ring around the entrance hole, but I took it off so they could get a better grip going in and out of the box.

I’m definitely very cautious and also quite paranoid about bird diseases . I don’t do bird stores, and if I go to a bird expo for supplies which is rare, I have a whole procedure for disinfecting myself, clothes , and anything I bring home . Not 100 percent fool proof but brings me a little piece of mind. I managed a bird breeding facility in florida for a few years ago. We had some very rare species, Palm Cockatoos , Red tailed Black Cockatoos, Hyacinth’s, so we couldn’t take any chances when it came to disease. I’ve heard horror stories of disease running through an entire collection, and that’s not something to be taken lightly. I honestly wish more people were “paranoid” about it . All of my birds are tested and thankfully negative. We just keep a few parakeets at the store, and they’re supposedly from a tested flock. I may batch test the ones at the store just for peace of mind before I bring the babies. I’ll definitely keep them as far away as possible and do my best to limit any cross contamination. I plan to keep the babies quarantined from my other birds once they start going to work and test them all before any go to new homes or become part of the flock .

I will post some updated pics of the chicks ! The youngest chick is still doing well and they’re doing a great job feeding everyone! I really hope I get a decent violet factor chick from this pair. Of course I’ll be happy with any chicks that are healthy. I’m considering finding a non GW male for the hen that would be a better fit for producing violets. I’ll see how these chicks turn out and go from there .

Quick question on using calcivet….
All my birds have an Arcadia UVB light (2.4% UVB and 30% UVA) over the cage on a smart plug that’s on for about 6hrs a day, and a second full spectrum LED light that is on longer. The full spectrum light has a sunrise/sunset function so the lights don’t cut off all of the sudden which gives them time to settle in for the night. The intensity and spectrum can be programmed to change throughout the day to mimic cloud cover and a more natural photo period. My concern is with overdoing the D3 levels since they should be naturally producing some D3 from the UVB light. Before laying, I provided oyster shells , egg shells, and would occasionally lightly dust fresh foods with a calcium powder that contained no D3, just calcium. They also have a mineral/calcium block available at all times and have been going hard on it since they started feeding chicks. I’ve been using a little bit of of Prime vitamin powder (1/3 the recommended dose) on fresh foods 2-3x a week now that the chicks have hatched. They also get bee pollen and spirulina powder that’s mixed in with their main diet in correct amounts. Do you think the additional D3 in the calcivet would overdo it with everything else they’re getting? I will post the specs on the HARI prime below….

Guaranteed Analysis per 1 c.c (per dose 0.55 g) :

Vitamin A	260.63 IU
Vitamin D3	48.49 IU
Vitamin E	7.27 IU
Phylloquinone/Vitamin K1	0.18 IU
Pantothenic Acid	0.30 IU
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)	0.48 mg
Folic Acid	0.036 mg
Niacinamide	1.45 mg
Thiamine (Vitamin B1)	0.071 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)	0.12 mg
Vitamin B12	0.85 mcg
Biotin	3.03 mcg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)	3.39 mg
Choline	9.9 mg
Iodine	5.46 mg
Iron	0.48 mg
Manganese	0.73 mg
Zinc	0.80 mg
Copper	36.37 mg
Calcium	23 mg
Magnesium	5.115 mg
Chloride	5.115 mg
Sodium	5.467 mg
Methionine	29.09 mg
Lysine	40.97 mg
Amylase	17.0 units
Protease	12.8 units
Lactobacillus Acidophilus	3.85 MCFU
Streptococcus Faecium	3.85 MCFU

 

[Chris103]

Got the oldest chick banded today , I think it’ll stay on this time . The Size difference between chicks is crazy , but all seem good and healthy. The oldest chick is just starting to open its eyes ! Can’t wait to see them feather up.

 

[Chris103]

Screenshot from a video of mom feeding chicks. Sorry Color and pic quality isn’t great .
It’s so amazing how calm this pair is and they’re not at all bothered by my presence. Allows for some great observations! I still limit the inspections to a quick peek in the morning and one at night before lights out to make sure a chick hasn’t wandered off in the box and is getting chilled .

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

You are doing great, and the chicks look fantastic.

As to the D3 and lights vs. supplementing.... True "full spectrum" lights aren't LED, and the ones that are lose their strength after about 6 months and are toxic waste. Expensive too. I ditched the full spectrum lamps about 6 years ago and just supplement with D3 so I know they are getting what they need without the fear of damage to the eyes, or ineffectiveness due to lamp age, or length of time the bird is sitting at the proper distance to the light.

There are many ways to skin a cat, this is what I do and find it works well. Diet can also help with D3, egg foods (fresh and dried) is a palatable source, that does double duty as fantastic protein for conditioning to breed, help through molts, and growing chicks.

 

[Bluebird]

Adorable, congratulations