help with excessive vocalization and aggression

edarling

Hatchling
Hi everyone! We adopted our Linnie "Goose" from a home where he lived for two years since being hand raised. He's been in our home for about a month now, and we think he's adjusting well enough to start tackling some training and problematic behaviors we're seeing. We would love to hear any advice or relevant experiences you might have! We're really struggling with how to make progress with Goose!

Both I (female) and my partner (male) feel comfortable with Goose and we seem to be able to communicate ok. What I mean by that is that we have been able to tell the difference between beaking (as a little hi / kiss / test before stepping up) and warning nibbles (precursor to a bite) and we haven't gotten to a full-on bite more than once or twice. We've had lots of lovely play times with Goose and he seems to especially love to snuggle in my partner's sweatshirt hood. But so far he only leaves his cage (when we open the door) on his own, and only will step onto sleeves. He is almost never ok with us putting our hands in the cage, even for routine things like changing out the water, etc. He varies in how upset he is about it, but it seems to relate more to his mood than what exactly we're doing. We think he is scared of hands and maybe also a bit territorial of his cage. We have his cage in the living room and are interacting with him throughout the day, including eating dinner in the same room and giving him opportunities to come out for a few hours most mornings and every evening. He's a really sweet little guy; all we want to do is feed him fruit and veggies and sit with him and love him, but sometimes he's so grumpy or even aggressive and chases us off. We want to be able to handle Goose with our hands and generally better understand when he's grumpy and why. Our goal is to clicker train eventually but he often attacks the millet from the get go.

Our main issues are:

1. Hands - how to make him not hate them
We want to be able to handle Goose with our hands and generally have our hands near him without him being very suspicious and/or being clear that he does not want them near him. A reliable "step-up" would be great, so far he only accepts fingers to step up on if he's flown around and gotten himself into an awkward spot behind the sofa or something (outside the cage only). So basically, when he feels like it he does a very nice little step up. Otherwise we get a "no thanks" beaking that escalates to agitated warning chirps and then lunging.
1b. He will even attack hands that approach the cage with a treat, although he often will take a few gentle bites accompanied by happy squeaks and then seemingly out of nowhere start angry sounds that quickly get louder and attacking the food and pushing it away, wings up and head down. We aren't sure why this happens, maybe because he just noticed the hand??

2. Screaming - often he uses his loudest "contact call" non-stop and that is NOT going to work for us or our neighbors
We expect to hear that contact call occasionally, like once or twice as a "hey where'd you go?" or when we're in another room making noises (clanging dishes or whatever), but this is something else. He calls over and over for ten minutes or more. It's a bit like he's whining that we aren't giving him attention. We have been addressing this by not reacting and by praising him when he is being quiet. But last night he shouted for a long time even when out of the cage and on a shoulder... it's really loud! Help! We had to put Goose in his cage and put the blanket over it to get him to stop. Some days he doesn't do it at all, and some days he does it nonstop almost all day and there seems to be nothing we can do to control it. It's really starting to negatively affect us.
 

srirachaseahawk

Fledgling
1. Hands - how to make him not hate them
We want to be able to handle Goose with our hands and generally have our hands near him without him being very suspicious and/or being clear that he does not want them near him. A reliable "step-up" would be great, so far he only accepts fingers to step up on if he's flown around and gotten himself into an awkward spot behind the sofa or something (outside the cage only). So basically, when he feels like it he does a very nice little step up. Otherwise we get a "no thanks" beaking that escalates to agitated warning chirps and then lunging.
1b. He will even attack hands that approach the cage with a treat, although he often will take a few gentle bites accompanied by happy squeaks and then seemingly out of nowhere start angry sounds that quickly get louder and attacking the food and pushing it away, wings up and head down. We aren't sure why this happens, maybe because he just noticed the hand??
So, hands can be a thing for Linnies. Even the sweetest, tamest most easy-going Linnie may hate hands.
I would stop putting your hands in his cage when possible. Obviously you have to change water/food/etc., but I wouldn't reach into the cage to offer him your hand at all.
I had a similar issue with my Linnie and I knew that chasing him around the cage was a bad idea.
I installed a perch on the door of his cage that he now goes to when he wants out. This way he comes "out" as I open the door.
Now, he will step up just fine onto fingers; but he prefers to hop onto my shirt sleeve if I'm honest. I'm not sure if it's because of how their feet are constructed or what, but the seem to feel safer with arms and shirts than with fingers.


2. Screaming - often he uses his loudest "contact call" non-stop and that is NOT going to work for us or our neighbors
We expect to hear that contact call occasionally, like once or twice as a "hey where'd you go?" or when we're in another room making noises (clanging dishes or whatever), but this is something else. He calls over and over for ten minutes or more. It's a bit like he's whining that we aren't giving him attention. We have been addressing this by not reacting and by praising him when he is being quiet. But last night he shouted for a long time even when out of the cage and on a shoulder... it's really loud! Help! We had to put Goose in his cage and put the blanket over it to get him to stop. Some days he doesn't do it at all, and some days he does it nonstop almost all day and there seems to be nothing we can do to control it. It's really starting to negatively affect us.
What kind of environment did he come from?
Was he housed with other birds?
Constant contact calling is not good, so he's looking for something. I think that what you're doing by not reacting to it is a good thing, and reinforcing quiet.
If he was with other birds, he may be going through some separation anxiety.
 

LinnieGirl

Moderator
Staff member
Your Linnie sound like he’s still pretty insecure about his new home. His behavior sounds like fear responses. It’s just going to take time and patience.
some Linnies never get over the fear of hands but most do in their own time when they finally learn to trust you.
same with the contact calling. sounds like he is very afraid when he can’t see you. He’s looking for reassurance. Having the cage in a place where he can see you the most often will help. But honestly, that’s just going to take time as well. Most Linnie’s that have that issue of calling loudly, do calm down when they realize they’re not alone and you’re nearby, but it can take a while.
And the comment above about being housed with other birds is something to consider. He may be calling for the others of the flock he lived with, or imitating large parrots he was used to hearing. Both issues should resolve in time as he bonds with you and gets used to your routines.
 

Morgan

Hatchling
This may not work for everyone or every parrot, but I contact call back to my parrots (budgies, linnies, and tiels) with a clear loud whistle. It seems to make them feel better. Even if they can't see me, they can hear me and know I am not that far away. I just mimic what they do with each other. That being said, they will contact call back to me again, and I back to them a few times before they settle down. Unless they are begging for snacks. ;)

Additionally, they also have each other. As a single bird that is a member of a species which normally lives in a social group that never separates, he may continue to contact call back to you until he can see you again. My two linnies will do this with one another even if they are in the same room but can't see one another. Luckily it never lasts too long for the hidden one to emerge and they stop.

This is actually pretty normal behavior for a social parrot though. My budgies also contact call for their mate if they can't see them. So I would second the idea that he is feeling insecure or unsafe whenever you leave. Getting him to feel comfortable alone, even for just a little while, will be the challenge.

Perhaps try distracting him with a favorite treat before you leave the room each time, and just like training a puppy with separation anxiety, enter the room again after just a short interval and praise him if he was quiet. Continue doing this while gradually lengthening the amount of time you are away. I haven't tried this myself since I enjoy keeping a small flock, but the psychology should be the same.

Another idea is to play music or a podcast for him while you are gone. Don't play bird noises though. He will contact call like crazy trying to find the other bird that isn't actually there. :unsure:
 
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Morgan

Hatchling
Oh, and as for hands, just be patient. A month is still not very much time at all for a new bird to settle in to a new enviroment. One he didn't choose to be in, whether pleasant or otherwise. His gentle beaking and happy sounds at the approaching treat in hand may not be interpreted correctly. It sounds to me like he was giving warning signs from the start and then it escalated because you didn't understand him. Though I could be wrong on that, it's hard to say without seeing it in person.

For now, begin again more slowly. Keep most of the hands-on interaction outside the cage until he decides he is okay with the scary hands changing his food and water first. If he will accept help in an awkward situation, offer your wrist instead. The more he trusts that you are there to make him feel comfortable, the more he might trust the scary grabbers on the end of that wrist. Get him closer and closer gradually.

If he will accept treats from fingers outside the cage, then continue to offer those. Make hands always the bearer of good things but never imposing. He may or may not come around to stepping up willingly on to fingers with time and patience, that seems to be just a linnie peculiarity. But don't take it for granted if will step onto your wrist and wants to hang out with you! <3

I find that parrots are more like cats than dogs, to compare them to a better-understood pet species - they want attention and interaction when and in the way THEY want it. We cater to them. :D But this comes from being essentially a wild animal still, and a prey species at that. Parrots are not domesticated and even hand raised babies still have plenty of wild instinct to be very cautious for survival. Even in our homes.
 

Shivali

Hatchling
I agree with the previous!
And esp the perch on the outside. I installed a U shape perch in the spot where my linnie likes to come out, so she just comes out and sits there when she wants to interact.
am also a new linnie owner so take this with a grain of salt , also my linnie is a baby and came clipped- but I started using a tip for holding her, that Laura from Eddie’s gave me that worked like a charm -
I started scooping her up with both hands while holding apple, and immediately would give her some apple. Usually she would complain and try to run away, then jump onto my shoulder to eat the apple. After a while she started having good associations, so now if she wants to, she will jump into my hands as I’m scooping her up.

she is still not into hands but much much better…
As far as nipping, she is a big foodie and if she is hungry she doesn’t like my hands anywhere near her bowl and will bite.
I am trying the gentle beak method with her and it is working pretty well!
When she is happy and snuggly, I stroke her beak and sing in a sweet mommy voice “genntlleee beeeaaak….🤓
And give her affection or treat…
So then when she bit me hard, I would keep my hand still , suck it up and pretend nothing was happening , and with whatever hand or finger is closest to her beak, try to stroke the top of her beak and sing the gentle beak song, and say “it’s ok baby/sweetie…”
Also would keep my face close to her because that’s what she associates with as “me”. And I would give her air kisses. It sounds counter intuitive but… it seems to snap her out of it.
Perhaps because I’m suddenly showing her behaviors which we usually only do when happy and relaxed? I learned about this technique online…

the other thing that helped was when I moved her to a New cage. She watched me put it together and set it up… and when she first went in she was insecure about it and didn’t bother my hands, maybe because I had inadvertently shown her it was “my cage”, first? So she is nowhere near as bad as she was in her first cage.

the last thing that has helped is target clicker training where you start with the target stick (I use a shirt bamboo skewer with the point cut off ), then once they are comfortable beaking the stick for a treat, you try replacing the stick with your hand or finger and reward for them not flinching…then reward for letting your hand move closer.

and finally… TIME! Good luck and wish me luck too!
 
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Eddie's Aviary

Administrator
Staff member
@edarling - has the contact calling gotten better? It takes about a month for a new Linnie to start to feel relaxed in a new home. It is possible the calling is out of insecurity. Does Goose like spray baths? If not, I can give some tips. If yes... a trick to get out of the habit of calling after you have him out and put back, give him a spray bath and they usually are busy preening and not noticing or caring that you have left the area. It has a great side effect of really making Goose look fantastic, and helps him regulate his temperature (dirty feathers are tough for that). Spraying 2-3x a day is no problem at all. Once the water rolls off him like a duck, you can bathe a little less water and frequency.

As to the hands issue, what is the history? Was Goose handfed as a baby, and if so... how was he in the previous home with tameness? Linnies have funny feet compared to most parrots. They are very dexterous, and that combined with the small size of the toes make gripping very tough for them. They are not long and slender like a Cockatiel, Lovebird or Budgie for example. Therefore, they quickly learn that fingers and hands = instability, which in turn can make them fearful. If you cup him in your hands or put on your shoulder, walk to where you are going to sit, then have him work on a step up while seated.... you may have some luck. This is if he is otherwise really tame.
 

Kenny Sharp

Incubating
One other thought is diet... I don't know if you mentioned if you fed them a Linnie mix or not, but I would.

You might want to start a morning routine with your bird, when you chop up fruits and vegetables that you are already giving him... it gives you an opportunity to work closely with your bird and maybe even hand-feed.

And maybe when your bird makes loud noises, whistle back to him in a way that you want him to mimic... my two Linnies whistle and it's pretty cute. :)

I have two sisters and when they are separated, they make that noise that you described. Ouch.
 

edarling

Hatchling
Thanks for all the great ideas!! I'm happy to report that things have been only getting better and better with Goose.

Hands- There has been huge progress with hands! He was hand raised but I guess got rusty on that with the last owner. We put our hands near him regularly and haven't had a warning bite in at least a month. We've worked out a system where I can touch his beak with my pointer finger to mean "shush" when he's on my shoulder and it kind of makes him stop calling, at least for 10 seconds. He also is comfortable now eating out of my hands and he only gets a little cranky if I try to touch his head. He rubs his head all over any soft fabric he finds so I know he'll love head scratches!! But we're not there yet.

He still only leaves his cage by stepping onto our sleeves, but he's much less upset when I put my hands in there. It seems to help to bring him the bowl and let him have a sip of water before I remove it- like he's giving permission. He does seem to want to spend more time out with us, and he flies back to his cage when he wants to. I have to coax him out of the cage more than Karl does, he's still the favorite.

Screaming- The screaming is so so much better, and also we got some ear plugs. I think we have successfully stopped accidentally reinforcing the contact calling from the cage. He does still scream sometimes, but mostly it's when Goose is on my shoulder and Karl (his favorite) walks by or he hears him in another room and he wants to go to him. Occasionally we do get a contact call from the cage that seems like a "anyone there?" and a "Hi Goose" back will end that, so thanks to the person who suggested that!

Diet- He's getting a mix of Linnie Mix, Miracle Meal and a diminishing amount of the ZuPreem pellets he's used to in his food bowl. We've been giving him that food bowl outside of the cage to encourage him coming out, and he has been hanging out with me while I work from home. Plus he gets lots of fresh fruit and veg in his cage all the time and a bit of millet and pine nuts in the foraging toys I've made out of egg cartons. That is good, right?

There has been basically zero progress on target training, though. He gets very angry at the chopstick and gets bored of the whole thing after only two or three touch-click-treats. We tried using a straw instead of a chopstick, but he didn't seem to know what that was at all. And honestly we haven't been trying that hard on this...

Also- I have a few lessons learned to offer up!
I found a big chunky, ridiculously large sweater on clearance at H&M and it's been the perfect thing to wear for Goose. He can grip it really well and run all up and down it with ease, and he clearly feels very comfortable on it. And it's some horrible synthetic material that is easy to wipe poop off of :ROFLMAO: so I give that 5 stars!

I've found natural gerbil toys at our local pet store that are made of straw, etc, and have made excellent foraging toys to stick pine nuts.

And for the WFH crowd- Goose loves licking keyboard keys, so a decoy keyboard has been a lifesaver! (see attached)
 

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Eddie's Aviary

Administrator
Staff member
All that sounds like great progress!

As the days lengthen, hormones are in abundance so that may explain the aggressiveness in the cage. I find if I move things around in there weekly, it helps. Rotating toys in and out at that point keep boredom at bay as well.

As to vocalizing... is it contact calling when you leave the room?
 

edarling

Hatchling
The biggest issue is the calling to Karl, which mostly happens outside the cage when Goose is on my shoulder and Karl walks by or he hears him in another room... When he's on Karl's shoulder he's pretty quiet and calm. My ears hurt.
 

LinnieGirl

Moderator
Staff member
We've had Goose about 5 months now. Can we train him not to scream for Karl?
When they bond to someone or another bird it takes a while for them to recover after separation. They need to be distracted by something else and it takes time and patience. If he won’t bond with another person you might want to get him a same sex buddy. In the mean time, you can try to distract him with some new toys, treats, activities. Foraging toys, etc...they are very social birds and need companionship.
 
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