Eight Eggs!

[Eddie's Aviary]

High potency pellets, high protein, soft foods and lots of available calcium makes the hens want to lay. Especially an over abundance of calcium in the diet. They lay in order to shed that excess calcium. I adopt an Austerity Diet in times I wish them to rest. It really helps.

BANDING: Closed bands that are club registered are the gold standard. Club bands are traceable, breeders should keep detailed records on buyers of birds with their band so if they are ever lost they can be returned. It is the only way to keep pedigrees and ensure no inbreeding. The year of hatch is on the band, proving age. Never purchase a bird that is un-banded if you can help it. You may inadvertently buy your own birds back! Many cut bands on older birds and pass them off as viable breeders. No band is the mark of a novice, laziness, and/or no understanding of how important it is for the species in most cases. Good record keeping is paramount with the banding. A single pair of birds often changes hands, so if you are looking for unrelated stock, only the record will prove that, not a leg band from a different breeder. Many states have enacted laws regarding "exotic" animals and leg banding the bird with a closed band proves it was domestically bred.

Open bands are better than no band, but can be dangerous. The cut can snag on toys and cage parts. It is only helpful for the record keeping. It doesn't prove age or breeder even, so I find their use frustrating. Breeders that sell to the big box stores as it is law, used to trace back when they have a Psittacosis outbreak. Being a zoonotic illness, it is a big deal for the seller and new owners.

I purchases my bands from The Society of Parrot Breeders and Exhibitors (www.spbe.org) as I can get the sizes I need for multiple species at once, and it supports a great club that is very active and hosts shows. Banded birds collect points towards Champion. They also let you pick the color! They mail a journal quarterly to all members.

 

[Morgan]

I only have the high calcium options since she laid that egg. But I don’t know how long she needs to have extra calcium available to make up for what was used for egg laying?

When they are not laying they are still on high potency pellets, and I always have the mineral block available, but not the oyster shell or liquid calcium, or sesame seeds because they are also high in fat. She never used the mineral block anyway until maybe a week before she laid that first egg - so maybe that is a good sign I should look for in the future.

If I figured when the first chick would be about two weeks old I would stop offering the oyster shell and sesame seeds, etc. But maybe I should stop offering it now? It doesn’t seem she uses the oyster shell now either, anyway.

She gets plenty of good veggies with her pellets, so I could remove the calcium/mineral block also, at least to keep her from laying again.

What do you suggest?

I have heard of the austerity method and it makes complete sense - but should I also remove all veggies, or her pellets even, and just feed plain seed for a short while? This is what has been suggested for budgies but I don’t know if that is appropriate for a linnie.

 

[Morgan]

If I can purchase club registered closed bands then it would make sense to band them I suppose.

I will check out the link you provided and contact the lineolated parakeet society as well. Thanks!

I just looked at the order form for bands from the spbe. Is there a standard size that you use for your linnies?

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

Lovebird size bands are Linnie size (3/16” which converts to 4.78 mm ). SPBE you can write on the form the color you want, and I like that as I use the colors of the rainbow so at a glance I can see who is young and who is getting on in years. I like the printed journal they send quarterly. Lots of great info in there.

About the calcium, I LOVE Calcivet. Needed for males as well unless you keep them outside for D3. I could go on about full spectrum lighting in a post in the proper place, but for most of us... no outside time means supplementing. We keep everyone outside most of the year, but the Linnies I keep inside because they like to hang on the wire and poop poop poop on my frame rails. If you build one, try to keep the wire on the inside so they don't make a mess of the support rails. Here is a link for the Calcivet https://chirpcentral.com/products/vetafarm-calcivet. D3 is needed with your calcium and this has it all. I would cut her extra calcium supplementing now, and then work to build her back again after your rest period (math for that is the total time from first egg to fledged baby, doubled... at minimum). If you try to pump her up for the lost calcium, you may struggle to get her to "turn off" this round.

When I am in an austerity diet phase, I make sure that they run out of food. If the bowl is magically always brimming.... they think it is a prime time to reproduce. I don't offer fresh more than a couple times a week during breaks as that too is a trigger . Here is the link for an article I wrote on feeding. It can be difficult to navigate all the differing opinions out there, but I have always taken in all information available, tried it all over time and come to my own conclusions. https://thelinnieforum.com/threads/general-feeding-information.13/

 

[Morgan]

I thought maybe lovebird, but better to know for sure than to guess! Thank you!

The liquid chelated calcium I mentioned also is Calcivet, under the name of CalciBoost, by the birdcare company. And I normally bring them outside at least every other day for sunlight and fresh air, as long as the weather allows.

I don’t free feed my birds anyway, so they won’t overeat and become overweight.

I will stop supplementing the extra calcium now then.

Thanks for all your insight! I feel much better now being able to discuss linnies in detail with someone knowledgable!

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

You're doing great! Thank you for caring about what you are doing.

 

[Morgan]

I just wanted to update. I removed Lottie's mineral and calcium block on the 17th, and then removed her nest box on the 23rd when she spent most of a day out of her box and was clearly done sitting on her infertile clutch. I minimized her diet to just dry pellets the following day as well and reduced her light hours to 10 hours a day. And I moved her cage to a new location and have been taking her and Happy outside in their flight every other day. There is nothing in the cage to shred or any cozy places to hide.

Lottie is still acting broody, however, and today she laid another egg on the floor of her cage. It was cracked when I found it so I removed it, but if she lays another I will give her eight fake eggs to sit on. I gave her back the mineral block only because I am more concerned about her becoming egg bound than anything else. I haven't seen her use it yet.

I tried separating them from one another for two full days, and a half... but I feel like it is a bit cruel... They contact call to each other almost constantly, and neither will interact with me at all when they are apart. When they are together they will sit on my shoulders and preen me like they normally do.


So two specific questions:

1) How long would I have to keep them in isolation form one another like that if I must separate them? ( I could put them each with a male budgie, but they and the budgies don't really care for one another, so I don't know if that would make any difference really. They don't try to harm each other either though, so if I must I can try that in the future. )

2) Would there be any advantage to putting the fake eggs right on the floor of the cage where Lottie is laying her eggs anyway? Or is it better to just give her another box? ( I am thinking that maybe she would be less likely to lay any more real ones without a nest box. One of my budgie hens still laid a full clutch of eight eggs, six fertile, even though I had also added four fake ones. )


I am usually okay with a little bit of "tough love" when it comes to making sure my birds are healthy and happy rather than spoiled too much, like making sure they eat their veggies and serving portioned meals, but I couldn't really bear separating Lottie and Happy completely. Depending on how things go this time around though, and your advice, I can try a little harder.

 

[LinnieGirl]

I just wanted to update. I removed Lottie's mineral and calcium block on the 17th, and then removed her nest box on the 23rd when she spent most of a day out of her box and was clearly done sitting on her infertile clutch. I minimized her diet to just dry pellets the following day as well and reduced her light hours to 10 hours a day. And I moved her cage to a new location and have been taking her and Happy outside in their flight every other day. There is nothing in the cage to shred or any cozy places to hide.

Lottie is still acting broody, however, and today she laid another egg on the floor of her cage. It was cracked when I found it so I removed it, but if she lays another I will give her eight fake eggs to sit on. I gave her back the mineral block only because I am more concerned about her becoming egg bound than anything else. I haven't seen her use it yet.

I tried separating them from one another for two full days, and a half... but I feel like it is a bit cruel... They contact call to each other almost constantly, and neither will interact with me at all when they are apart. When they are together they will sit on my shoulders and preen me like they normally do.


So two specific questions:

1) How long would I have to keep them in isolation form one another like that if I must separate them? ( I could put them each with a male budgie, but they and the budgies don't really care for one another, so I don't know if that would make any difference really. They don't try to harm each other either though, so if I must I can try that in the future. )

2) Would there be any advantage to putting the fake eggs right on the floor of the cage where Lottie is laying her eggs anyway? Or is it better to just give her another box? ( I am thinking that maybe she would be less likely to lay any more real ones without a nest box. One of my budgie hens still laid a full clutch of eight eggs, six fertile, even though I had also added four fake ones. )


I am usually okay with a little bit of "tough love" when it comes to making sure my birds are healthy and happy rather than spoiled too much, like making sure they eat their veggies and serving portioned meals, but I couldn't really bear separating Lottie and Happy completely. Depending on how things go this time around though, and your advice, I can try a little harder.

Sounds like you e done the right things so far. Sometimes it takes a while to get them out of breeding mode. Continue the things you’ve been doing and I would also move as much of the things INSIDE the cage as you can to throw them off a bit. Do not put in any budgies with a hormonal Linnie. That’s a recipe for disaster.
if you separate the pair, they must be far enough apart that they can’t hear each other calling or they will continue to call. If shes not using the mineral block you need to add liquid calcium to her water or powdered calcium w/D3 to her vegies for as long as she’s laying eggs or for a week or. Two after if she’s done laying.

 

[Morgan]

Sounds like you e done the right things so far. Sometimes it takes a while to get them out of breeding mode. Continue the things you’ve been doing and I would also move as much of the things INSIDE the cage as you can to throw them off a bit. Do not put in any budgies with a hormonal Linnie. That’s a recipe for disaster.
if you separate the pair, they must be far enough apart that they can’t hear each other calling or they will continue to call. If shes not using the mineral block you need to add liquid calcium to her water or powdered calcium w/D3 to her vegies for as long as she’s laying eggs or for a week or. Two after if she’s done laying.

Thanks again for the quick response and the confirmation! I haven’t changed the arrangement of the cage yet, don’t know why that slipped my mind!

I hope to have an outdoor aviary built next summer so I can properly separate pairs when I need to. But at the moment there’s no way for them to not hear each other anywhere in the house.

I’ll rearrange her setup and give her a calcium boost again, but I have my fingers crossed she just won’t lay another egg tomorrow.

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

I have outdoor aviaries and LOVE them!

Be mindful of a calcium boost when you want to stop laying, it jacks them up like a body builder unless they are really run down. If they look good, focus on an Austerity Diet, no more than 10-12 hours of light, no paper on the cage grate, soft or fresh foods rarely, no soft foodsand keep away from partner.

If she laid 2 clutches, back to back, this is more imperative than if it was only one. IF she looks fantastic and it was only 1 round, I would let them try again.

 

[Morgan]

She definitely looks fantastic and is still pestering Happy! But I rearranged the interior of their cage, and I separated Happy at night (they're asleep anyway so no contact calling then!), and then brought them outside two days in a row together. Haven't been feeding produce the past few days, was doing it on and off before and will introduce it again slowly in maybe a few more days. I think a week without won't hurt her. No enfold or anything soft currently.

And she hasn't laid another egg! Yay!!

If her eggs might be fertile I could have considered another clutch, but Happy isn't mounting her of his own volition or anything, she's just pestering him. He still doesn't want to be away from her either, but if the eggs may not be fertile again I would rather she not lay another clutch at all. Plus momma linnie poops are the worst! Haha!

Daylight hours are reducing this time of year anyway, so I think I can manage her not laying until she snaps out of it completely.

Oh and I didn't give her a huge calcium boost, just some sesame seeds and gave her back her calcium block again to be on the safe side. And she hasn't touched her calcium block again yet, so I think thats another good sign.

I think bringing her outside daily and rearranging her cage every few days and moving it to a new location every so often will do the trick so I can slowly get her diet back to normal again after the week is up.

Thank you both @LinnieGirl and @Eddie's Aviary for all the help!

 

[LinnieGirl]

Great progress! Thanks for the update!

 

[Morgan]

Happy is definitely a boy (four fertile eggs!) and Lottie is now a proud momma of two hatched chickies! I pulled one infertile egg and one with a puncture initially, so the hatched chicks are from eggs 2 and 3. Waiting on two more from eggs 5 and 6.

Lottie didn't mind me checking on them at all, and they are well fed, clean, not buried. She seems to have good instincts so I am feeling optimistic all four will grow up healthy until I pull them for hand feeding.

I am so excited I could write a whole essay about them, but for now I will just leave with this: YAY!

Edit: Won't let me add photos. It kept logging me out first and now says the files are too big, and I don't have the patience now to keep trying. Maybe next time.

 

[LinnieGirl]

Congratulations! Can’t wait to see the photos!

 

[Eddie's Aviary]

I second your yay! You were smart to remove infertiles, or broken eggs. If you have some that don't look dark and rotten, I like to leave those, or add a few dummy eggs to help hold heat in the nest as well as prop up the little babies so they don't get squished under parents or larger babies. It also helps them find the center of the nest if they get pushed away when a parent exists the nest in a hurried fashion.

What are you feeding the parents?

Good luck, we are excited to hear about the progress! If you need leg bands and don't have any in your hand... I have a source in California that gets them in my hand in a weeks time.

Yay!!!